Perfect Isolation 2.0beta
Discussion => Music => Topic started by: Aaron on June 14, 2011, 02:36:14 AM
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I want to lean how to play the Guitar. I know that starting with an acoustic is the way to go (you guys said so a long time ago. ) And I want to get a good starting guitar. I need something kinda cheap around 200USD (unless that isn't enough) or around there. I don't want a POS, or something that people in real bands play. Just a good basic guitar to get the basics/learn how to play. And if there is any help videos/books kinda stuff you have used before, recommend them as well please.
And any other starting stuff I may need.
Any help would be sweet. And sites to order stuff from would also be great.
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I don't really agree or endorse the idea of buying an acoustic first. I do understand the argument about paying out a lot of money for very expensive equipment for an electric set up, only to quit after a very short while. However, a good acoustic can cost way in excess of a decent electric - I'm not necessarily talking in terms of sound or wood here either, every cheap acoustic I've ever seen has string action at painfully high levels and makes the entire playing experience a chore and can make playing very uncomfortable over even short periods of time and will leave you with more muscle ache than if you played a reasonable guitar (You will get some aches in your hands and fingers to begin with simply because your muscles in your hands/fingers have never had to make those shapes before and you are in effect, exercising them). This can really discourage your playing and make you put the instrument down faster.
You can buy some cheap priced starter packs, they're not amazing guitars or amps, but they will be more comfortable. In fact, whilst not exactly having the reputation of someone like Fender or Gibson (personally I hate both), Yamaha do a Pacifica bundle for next to nothing and they actually feel better than most medium grade Fenders to play and most definitely more comfortable on the neck and fretboard than a cheap acoustic.
My best advice is to ask yourself some questions, like "what kind of music do I want to play?", "What kind of sound do I want?" - I don't mean that you're thinking about starting 'Vegetarian Progresssive Grindcore', but do you want effects or just acoustic? If the former, then I'd suggest an electric because you can always and easily place any effects on the signal and get a playable sound with zero effort as opposed to an acoustic.
Look at what you want to do with it now and where you'll be say 6 months down the line - you may be content now to sit strumming an acoustic in your bedroom while you get the hang of it, but then you might want to be playing something radically different but are now limited due to your equipment and having to look at the prospect of shelling out for a new set up. If you buy an electric you can get pretty much the best of both worlds; it takes nominal effort to make an electric sound similar to an acoustic.
Go out and try some out, forget names - don't buy a Jackson just because you think you heard they were good, try them out, see how they feel holding it, feel the neck out and check the string action - too high will kill your hands. Comfort here is key, it will keep you playing. Check each note - this may sound stupid, but I've picked up many a guitar where the notes just immediately drop out and choke on the higher range, you do not want that! Take your time in the store and don't be embaressed, remember it's your money so you dictate what happens and there's no pressure, the last thing you want is to be rushed in your decision and end up buying a turkey.
In terms of help, yes, the internet (obviously) has a lot of free sites and also sign-up sites that do video lessons and the like, as well as billions of tab etc. In terms of videos, I can't recommend the John Petrucci DVD highly enough.
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I used to play ages ago and I just had one of the cheap fender strats with a little amp with built in distortion
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Cool thanks.
I think I'm gona get a electric. The Pacifica is cheaper then I thought it would be. I think I may just go with that. Thanks.
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Remember the golden rule of beginner electric guitar: anything sounds awesome when run through enough effect pedals. ;)
In fact, you shouldn't even consider *touching* an actual instrument until you're in possession of at least four or five pedals. That way, you can play your first note with the assurance that you'll sound like a RAWK GOD right from the start.
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This is true
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Is that why Omar has so many pedals? Cuz he has a ton of pedals. He can't play for shit, but it sounds amazing? Damn maybe I should get like 30 then. I'll be in the rock n' roll hall of fame in no time. OH YA.
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No, that's The Edge's excuse, not Omar's. :P
As for learning, it doesn't really matter in the long run what you learn on, but I'd highly recommend getting a decent teacher for at least the first 3 months, if not 6. That way, you have someone pointing out and correcting bad habits you're forming with your hands, and if you practice right while away from your lessons, you're not going to have to fight your shitty hand position while trying to learn how to play the instrument.
People who learn to play on their own often form bad habits (bad pinky positioning, wrist buggered in the wrong way, bad picking techniques, and so on), and then hit a point fairly quick where they want to get better but can't, and can't figure out why. Its because they're fighting with their own body as much as fighting with the instrument. When you make your arms work with the instrument instead of against it, magic happens. Books can show you pictures until the cows come home, but that doesn't mean your body's going to do what the book tells them to. A guy actually standing over you smacking you around for an hour a week has a better chance at getting you out of bad habits fast. That's why getting the teacher before you get too far on your own is crucial.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeupLXuoWko)
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Oh how I love that movie. :D
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Holy shit you weren't joking...
Note to self. Get lots of peddles. And hope there isn't ever a power outage... (Then again I could just do it Kyuss style. And get a generator...)
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In all honesty, The Edge is probably the most solid rhythym guitarist in rock history, and his use of effects has been groundbreaking over the years. But yeah, the guy can't shred for shit. But he doesn't need to, as his artistry lies elsewhere.
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well put, goose. I think you nailed it.
I have so much love for that man. He has always been the best thing about that band both musically and personality-wise. I also wish he would sing more as he has great (and unique) voice.
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Meh, I've found his singing to be a little thin and weak, especially when you put Bono on stage next to him. His voice is great for backing vocals, but I wouldn't put him up front much, if at all.
That being said, I love me some "Van Dieman's Land". :P
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That's why I like his voice. That thin and tinny thing is such a nice departure from the bonosaurus.
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I haven't ever really listened to U2. Ever... (Don't hurt me r00.) So I will have to take your word on that.
Also, Can I play the guitar (electric) with out an amp. I want to get one (amp), however, I'm a night person. and staying up till 2 am is pretty much the normal for me. (Granted I work noon to 8pm so 2am isn't really that late for me...) But if I play with it not plugged in will it still sound the same just not loud?
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No, it'll sound like thwacking nickel-wound rubber bands against a wood board, which is essentially what you're doing if its not amplified. You won't learn anything that way.
If you're worried about noise, get a small practice amp that has a headphone jack.
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Ok cool. Thanks. Will do.
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I'm going to re-iterate what most people have said, even the lessons thing - I never took lessons but maybe if I had at the very beginning I wouldn't find it such a horrid struggle to use my pinky finger; at any rate, you kind of have to know the basics before you start fucking with them. How else can you know why people having heart attacks at the thought of the Beach Boys using a V-ii progression, unless you learn that that just wasn't done?
My piece of advice isn't actually mine but it comes from Steve Vai: learn as much musicality and technique for what you want to play, and don't sweat the other stuff so much.
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Yar thanks for the tips. My good friend (I have known him since I was in the 4th grade.) said he has a guitar with the same body as the Pacifica. So he is gona come over tomorrow and let me check it out. Also he said he would give me lessons as well.
He came over today. He brought an acoustic and electric guitar. And while I can't say I did anything well, it was kinda fun. after a little practice I was doing cords. Also I found the acoustic neck to feel a lot better then the electric (the acoustic neck is bigger, and I have bigger hands, so it was easier to get the cords with it then the electric.
I'm gona be getting this guitar http://www.guitarcenter.com/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Special-II-Electric-Guitar-100001870-i1149986.gc
As the neck is closer to his acoustic, and it feels better... All in all the guitar amp tuner and cord (and all the other stuff, stand, and picks) will be just under 300 bucks. (I'm getting free shipping on it so that is hella cool.)
I see the amount of time I spend with my rubik's cube going way way way down.
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Nice! I've got an Epiphone Les Paul; same cherry sunburst finish, too. I'm really happy with it. 15 years and the only repair work I've needed was to replace the nut (though my frets are getting worn enough that I should replace them soon).
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My prized guitar is an Ibanez JS100; the Edge III is tricky to make work but holy crap does that guitar sound awesome and play awesome. It's definitely built for Satriani-style legato.
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NICE, Aaron. I have an Epiphone Les Paul as well. Honestly, it sounds fucking awesome and I'm glad I bought it over the real-deal Gibson Les Paul that the shop was asking $600 for (USED, mind you).
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If I were to buy a guitar, it would be a Les Paul too.
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My dream guitar is the black Flying V Jim Martin uses in the Epic music video. Never been a huge Les Paul guy, myself.
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A Gibson SG and ES330 would also be on my list.
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I used to think my dream guitar would be a high-end Les Paul, but that was until I got my hands on a Hagstrom Swede. I've got a 1975 model, and that thing is fucking killer. The tone on that puppy has more meat on it than a fucking cow, and thanks to its somewhat complicated tone selector, its also flexible as hell. The primary downside is that the body is solid mahogany, so it weighs about a quarter ton. You get a workout just holding the damn thing up for an hour on your shoulder.
If I was going to get a new one now, I'd totally be heading for a brand new Super Swede. Or possibly an Ibanez S5470. Its also got a similar tone switch, and might be a little better for playing something with a scooped, thrashy crunch instead of the Hagstrom's bluesy rock sauce.
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I'd actually go for a 70s Ibanez Destroyer too. Fun fact: some of EVH's famous "brown sound" were played with a standard-issue Destroyer on Van Halen's first album.
I mean, don't get me wrong: never in my life would I turn down a Les Paul (my all-time hero Zappa played the shit out of an SG too, so the same applies) but I would just want something that could do everything I wanted, and I don't think a Les Paul fits that.
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JUST GOT IT JUST GOT IT JUST GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOHOOOOO
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I have been playing since yesterday. Well not really, but you know what I mean. And My Smoke On the Water isn't terrible. However, I'm trying tool. Which I'm sure its a bad idea. Cuz its tool. However, I'm getting the start of Schism. Like the very very start. Not the main rift, but the start. And I'm not terrible (HAHAHAH ya I am. but I have been playing since yesterday...) WOOHOO!
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The first song I learned to play on bass was Maynard's Dick. :p
Or, like, the million other songs that use that cord progression.
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Well then, I will learn it. I have the start of Schism kinda down. Its better then it was, but my timing is off...
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THREAD NECROMANCY ALERT!
Any bassists in the house? I see sin, but from my (limited) knowledge of guitar terminology, it looks like the rest of you are all talking regular guitar type guitars.
I've got a no-name brand acoustic guitar chilling in the coat closet (the closest place in the apartment to "climate controlled") untouched for going on 10 years now (give or take; keep in mind I've been HERE for nearly 10 years now, and some of you DO remember how young I was when I showed up) and I'm trying to come to some decision as to its fate. Unfortunately for it, the guitar was a Christmas gift bought when I was going through my guitar phase. Throughout middle and high school, I went through about one instrument phase a year. Flute, drums, violin, harp, several other stringy things, guitar, and bass guitar. I could still get into learning to play the guitar as well, but I've found that my deepest musical attraction (no pun intended) remains with the bass. Rereading an interview with Simon Gallup (bassist for The Cure) revealed that he learned to play guitar before moving on to the bass, but the brevity of the interview left little room for any indication of a relationship between the two skills or instruments. He still plays both, according to the interview, though various Cure CD booklets would suggest he's more likely on keys in addition to/instead of bass.
I guess the question behind all of this is a) should I learn guitar as a stepping stone to bass? and b) will one instill worse hand position habits than the other? If that even makes sense... I mean will it be more difficult, in terms of positioning, to go from guitar to bass or vice versa?
Oh! I almost forgot. I had an ex once suggest to me that I should try to trade in my guitar for a 3/4 size because I have small hands. I don't tend to think they're UNUSUALLY small, but I have always struggled in past flirtations with teaching myself guitar, and I'm not sure if it's because I'm doin' it wrong or if I really do have freaky small hands. What's a good way to gauge compatibility of hand size to guitar size before I actually learn proper positioning?
*waits for Teepers to jump out of the shadows with a wiseass answer*
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From what I understand when I was going to transition from guitar-playing to bass-playing a couple years ago, it might be easier (if you haven't learned a lot of the hand positioning and techniques behind playing a guitar, bass playing DOES differentiate itself from guitar playing to the point where it's LIKE a guitar how a bass cello might be different from a violin. Does that makes sense? They're string instruments you'd typically play a certain way, probably with a bow ... but the technique and the positioning vary from instrument to instrument.
Of course, that's just what I was told by my friend who played bass for 10 years, but I have no reason to believe she was wrong unless someone more learned can tell me "YOU'RE WRONG." I very well could be. lol
For hand-size-ness... I'm not sure, actually. I have slightly larger than average hands, but picking at a bass was actually easier for me for some reason. Maybe because they're larger rather than small?
Also, just to beat Teeps to it:
What's a good way to gauge compatibility of hand size to guitar size before I actually learn proper positioning?
I guess you could say this is trying to...
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af164/NDRuno/csi_meme1.jpg)
get a rise out of us.
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af164/NDRuno/csi-meme1-5.jpg)
...
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af164/NDRuno/csi_meme2.jpg)
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*applaud*
*dies*
:))
Well played, sir, well played!
At least I realized I was walking into it for once... It was a conscious choice to continue through that door
Back ON topic, yeah, I kinda figured it would be something like that, being that they are both roughly guitar-like instruments (in being they are both guitars WHOA!) but that they're still very, very different.
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I've been playing bass even longer than guitar. Got started on bass about 6 months before touching a 6-string for the first time. So, in the long run, not much longer.
Personally, I found that a lot of skills transfer over nicely, but some things can mess you up. When you learn bass, you typically learn to play one note at a time, and learn to play decent solid melodies/riffs. Learning to do this well is a great foundation for learning how to shred like a motherfucker in the long run, and on bass its the typically expected role, so it feels natural. On the other hand, most people who start with guitar end up going straight to simple chords and learning those in an effort to learn something cool sounding quick, and as a result knowledge of what notes are actually where and on which strings isn't as immediately important. Bass chords are very rarely used in the grand scheme of things, unless you're Les Claypool. :P
TL;DR: bass before guitar good, guitar before bass can be trickier but doable if you leave your guitar knowledge at the door as much as possible.
As for a 3/4-size axe, buying something like that has nothing to do with hand size, and more to do with your height/arm length. Unless you're shorter than 4'10" for some reason, or have some bizarre baby-hand syndrome, you don't need a smaller guitar. If you actually have trouble reaching the first fret on a normal guitar, then its worth considering. Keep in mind that many of the greatest axe-men in the history of the instrument were puny people (Alex Lifeson, Randy Rhoads, and Stevie Ray Vaughan, just off the top of my head, would be lucky to top 5'6").
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Keep in mind that many of the greatest axe-men in the history of the instrument were puny people (Alex Lifeson, Randy Rhoads, and Stevie Ray Vaughan, just off the top of my head, would be lucky to top 5'6").
Perfect size reference, given that my license puts me at 5'7. (Beloved claims I must have been wearing thick-soled shoes at the time, but that's beside the point :P) My hands are definitely not *freakishly* small for my person.
I think, based on your explanation, I'll go for the bass first, even if it means waiting longer to get started (I'd probably have to hold off a bit on lessons anyhow, this gives me time to look for something I can work with). I imagine that actually knowing where notes are, rather than starting off with chord progression, will work out better in the long run for BOTH instruments.
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There's another side benefit as well: chicks playing bass are significantly hotter than chicks playing guitar. Don't know why, but its a rule. Cases in point:
(http://www.chartattack.com/files/imagecache/content_image-680xauto/chart_global/news/Sylvie_1.jpg)
(http://www.williesimpson.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/TalWilkenfeld_0110.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kyr4by7RLS1qb92ivo1_400.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/2839474919_caa8ab3a18.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Melissa_Auf_der_Maur.jpg)
Hotness with bass. Its a rule.
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Who is the chick in the second pic? White shirt... Cuz she looks a lot like one of the managers at work. Very close to one...
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Tal Wilkenfeld, Jeff Beck's current bassist. Talented as all hell (bass solo about a minute in).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC02wGj5gPw
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Perfect size reference, given that my license puts me at 5'7. (Beloved claims I must have been wearing thick-soled shoes at the time, but that's beside the point :P) My hands are definitely not *freakishly* small for my person.
I think, based on your explanation, I'll go for the bass first, even if it means waiting longer to get started (I'd probably have to hold off a bit on lessons anyhow, this gives me time to look for something I can work with). I imagine that actually knowing where notes are, rather than starting off with chord progression, will work out better in the long run for BOTH instruments.
That's how I'd do it (I started with bass before guitar too, somewhere around 15 years ago now), and that made it easier for the theory I had learned for piano to transfer over. Full disclosure: I'm not much of a piano player, but I really took to the basic theory and that allowed me to learn a lot for guitar, pretty quickly. I'm a big believer that that approach can actually be more helpful in learning chords and that.