Author Topic: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]  (Read 31878 times)

individualzero

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Just a general tech thread. Post any technology/computer-related geekery here, whether it's posting cum1.gif because Intel FINALLY FUCKING FIXED Sandy Bridge, debating if you REALLY want to pick up a that new graphics card, or troubleshooting your PC or Mac because your cousin downloaded goat porn and it fucked your rig up.



geeking out:
So I'm thinking of grabbing a smaller Solid State Drive to store my OS and browsers on to make shit lightning fast, and then tossing my games onto my 500GB Samsung SpinPoint F3 so my OS and applications are on two separate drives for maximum performance.

The thing is, with the price-to-performance ratio for SSDs slightly skewed at the moment, I think I will wait until people stop jizzing over solid state being new and fast tech and pick one up when they won't cost me my first-born son. BUT, I will have the money to pick one of these up if I want to. The question is, should I bother?

What SSD would you guys recommend? I'm thinking a slower 60GB SSD, but the SandForce-based SSDs with 25nm architecture are a lot faster (purportedly double the speed in real-time performance), and bigger -- so at the time of posting, they cost about 20% more per gig. Right now, the minimum storage size the SandForce SSDs are toting is 120GB. I can afford it after the move either way.
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Goose

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2011, 08:58:30 AM »
So I'm thinking of grabbing a smaller Solid State Drive to store my OS and browsers on to make shit lightning fast, and then tossing my games onto my 500GB Samsung SpinPoint F3 so my OS and applications are on two separate drives for maximum performance.
BZZZZT! Incorrect!  Unless you're using Linux (and going through some funky jazz to make that setup feasible) you'll want to keep your OS and installed applications on the same partition.  The performance of both is reliant on one another in a very interconnected way, and ripping them apart will slow things down more than speed them up.

What SSD would you guys recommend?
Its almost impossible to actually recommend one over another at this point.  Any benchmarks I've seen have any drives tested come out practically identical (unless there was a firmware bug of some type, and just about any of those I've heard of have been fixed).

Honestly, if you're looking to burn money on fast storage space, I wouldn't go with SSD's yet.  They're great for portable devices and laptops, but for hefty desktop computing they're still bloody expensive compared to the alternatives.  I've been sporting a RAID 5 setup for ages, and its bloody awesome.  For the cost of 3 1TB hard drives, you can have 2TB of space with backup in case one drive fails, all running at the equivalent of a 14,000RPM hard drive.  The contents of my hard drive have never been safer or faster.
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individualzero

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 09:42:10 AM »
re: OS and apps
I must have had it backwards. I was always told that having to load games AND OS files on the same partition made games run -- or at least load -- marginally slower. Thanks!

in regards to RAID-5:
You know, that doesn't sound too bad at all. It actually sounds pretty boss. I don't like going over 500GB HDDs for the sake of "what if one fails" (though that seems to be less of an issue with RAID-5) and it'd probably be a better buy, right now I was thinking of picking up one of the SATA-III 6GB/s HDDs (with a 32MB cache and 7200 RPM) since my motherboard can actually utilize SATA-III. What I could do - and save a fuckton of cash doing it -- is get a RAID-5 setup going on with three of those hard drives.

Do you know if there would be a substantial speed difference between 32MB and 64MB caches? Say I have the same exact RPM, SATA support, size, and what not and the only difference is cache, do I really need 64MB? I ask because SpinPoint F3 500GBs are cheap as fuck and some of the best HDDs I've worked with, but they're 7200RPM on a 32MB cache. As far as I can tell 64MB from reviewing some benchmark comparisons, a 64MB is barely faster at all if they're not gigantic drives, so I could probably just grab another two SpinPoints, reformat and set up RAID-5.

Assuming my math and understanding don't suck, that would give me 1TB of space with ~14,000RPM and one redundant partition in case of total hard drive failure? I'm not very familiar with RAID setups though, at least not RAID-5. I'd have to Google how to get that rigged up.
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Goose

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2011, 10:30:15 AM »
For the most part, the difference in the cache size will be pretty negligible to you.  There are situations where it makes a world of difference, but normal desktop computing is not one of them.

RAID 5 is a combination of striping and checksumming, and for desktop work its the best of all situations.  You need three drives to pull it off.  The first two have the data striped between them, so for every file you write half goes to one drive and half goes to the other.  It splits the write/read time in half because only half the data gets read/written, with two drives working in tandem.  The RAID controller splits/joins the data before its passed off to the OS/program, so to Windows it just looks like you have one massive drive.  This virtual drive can be partitioned however you like it, and I still recommend creating two seperate partitions, one for OS/programs, and one for data.  In Windows, I map my Documents/Library folders to a folder on my D: partition, and I pretty much never have to think about it again. 

The third drive is used as a checksum, and contains the data written to both drives summed together.  This way, if one drive goes down, data can still be reconstructed using the remaining drive and the checksum.  Its like automatic backup.  If your RAID controller is decent too, it won't even crash your computer when the drive fails.  It'll just pop up a warning telling you to replace a drive.  When you replace the drive, the RAID array will rebuild the data for that drive on first boot, and you can continue on like nothing ever happened.  If two drives blow though, you're fucked.

All this work is done by the RAID controller, so you basically have to do nothing beyond going into the RAID section of your BIOS, selecting "Create RAID 5 Array", and hitting OK.  Assuming Windows 7 recognizes your motherboard's RAID controller by default (which it mostly will these days), when its ready to install it'll just see one massive drive to work on.

Just whatever you do, if you go RAID make sure all the drives you get are IDENTICAL.  Same make/model/size/cache, everything, preferably.  If one thing is off on one drive from the others, everything gets degraded to the lowest common denominator.  If one of your drives is 50GB smaller than the others, then 50GB goes unused on each of the bigger drives.  If one of the drives has a smaller cache than the others and retrieves data slower, then the other drives are constantly going to have to wait for it in order for them to do their work.  It might not seem like much when there's just a millisecond of difference, but when every single transaction your computer makes with your hard drives is affected in the same way, and there can be hundreds or thousands of transactions a second, it adds up in a hurry.  With hard drive access speed being the most notorious bottleneck in system performance, screwing with that makes everything seem slower.

For the record, my computer really isn't anything to sneeze at.  Core2Duo E8400 with 2GB of DDR2 RAM.  But Windows 7 boots to desktop in about 10 seconds.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 10:42:50 AM by Goose »
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individualzero

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2011, 11:10:13 AM »
Understood. Thanks for the guide and the heads-up on RAID-5 -- it was an alternative I'd never even considered!

The HDDs I was going to set up RAID with were all going to be the same exact model and specs for a SpinPoint F3. I already have one, so I'll probably order two more this week when I get paid, then reformat just for the sake of having a nice clean slate to work with (I haven't reformatted this year, yet, anyway), and set the drives into RAID-5. I like the idea of having two separate partitions though. I do that now with two separate physical drives, though the reason I'm wanting to get into the triple-HDD RAID-5 setup is because I'm currently bottlenecking the shit out of my games because half of them are on an older 320GB iteration of the WD Caviar GREEN models, which -- as you already know - are notoriously ass-tastic for gaming.

I do have my OS, all my apps and my slower games on the SpinPoint (and as it is, I still have 267GB free across both drives) so it's not awful, but I'd honestly much rather try a RAID-5 setup. It sounds sexy.


Yeah, Win7 here. I was a good boy and went with 64-bit. The OS takes about 15-20 seconds to boot. Here are my specs, if you're curious!:
WINDOWS 7/Home Premium 64-bit
COOLER MASTER Storm Scout
SAMSUNG SpinPoint F3 500GB
WESTERN DIGITAL Caviar Green 320G (WRYYYYYYYYYYYY)
EVGA GTX 460 768MB (performed a 30% overclock to core clock and memory)
GIGABYTE 890GX AM3 Mobo (I am disappoint in this mobo as it is not a SLIP-supported chipset and I have two matching EVGA GTX 460s for SLI... can't use them though. Boner killer)
CORSAIR XMS 1600 DDR3 / (2x2=4GB 9-9-9-24 [1.25v])
AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition / OC'd up to 4.0GHz (stock cooling & stable temperatures so far)
Sony Optiarc

Peripherals:
LOGITECH G35 Headset (it has faux 7.1 surround sound and sounds great, but it was kinda pricey)
LOGITECH G510 Keyboard (expensive as fuck for a backlit keyboard with some useless macro buttons, but it was a Christmas gift from my vnother)
R.A.T. 7 Mouse (it would be the best mouse I'd ever used if they calibrated it correctly...)
24" ASUS Widescreen LCD (1920x1080p native resolution. AW YEAH)



What I really wanna do is wait for Bulldozer and upgrade when that hits. I'm gonna pick up a badass AM3+ mobo, maybe up to six gigs of some faster RAM, and then a quad-core. Right now I'm sporting the aforementioned dual core kicked up to 4.0GHz clock rates.
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luna

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 02:22:40 PM »
why the fuck am i posting in a tech thread?

because i'm in the market for a laptop and know NOTHING* so i was hoping someone could steer me in some sort of direction of what brands are good....something for a starting point for my research.

all i really want it for is using the interweb while B is hogging the pc playing black ops, downloading/loading music onto my mp3 but not storing large quantities of music, loading/editing pictures but again not storing lots of stuff. the only real requirement that i have is that i want to load photoshop cs3 on it and want it to run at a decent speed....sooooo yeah

also i am adverse to hp and dell, long story, goes back to my tech support days

*ok i shouldn't say i know absolutely nothing...if you talk to me in english i'm sure i will understand :lol:
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Goose

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 03:40:26 PM »
Up until the Photoshop CS3 requirement, I'd almost say you'd be better off buying a tablet than a laptop.  That said...

also i am adverse to hp and dell, long story, goes back to my tech support days

I just applauded your karma up for this. :D

Your requirements aren't exactly demanding, so it shouldn't be tough to find something for you.  Two questions before I can make a decent recommendation though:

- What's your price range?
- What size of screen do you want?  Or, rather, what's too small to be unusable to you?
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luna

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 05:24:14 PM »
I don't want a giant screen because I want the whole thing to be nice and portable...15 inch or so seems fine. Price range around $600-700? Although that can be adjusted if it's inrealistic
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r00

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2011, 11:08:55 AM »
You cant really beat this for the money.   Sounds like it can do everything you are looking for, plus more for $500.
ASUS 1215N Netbook

It has a separate Nvidia Ion graphics processor that kicks in when using 3d or HD apps.  Otherwise it jsut uses the onboard video so it saves battery life.  It also has a HDMI out that would pump 1080p video to any external monitor or TV.  Turtle is ordering one of these soon.

If you want more portability, they make a 10" version (with a little lower processor specs) of this too for $350 and my workmate is in love with it.  He said he has never been happier with a laptop/netbook purchase.
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luna

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 01:13:52 PM »
Thanks i'll look into it :)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 01:15:42 PM by luna »
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kristin

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2011, 06:35:49 AM »
Not really computer talk, but tech nonetheless.
 
I'm in the market for a new phone. Right now I have an LG envy, nothing crazy- talk, text, basic internet. no apps.

iPone or Droid Thunderbolt? Keep in mind that I'm not going to be doing anything crazy beyond a few apps and music. I'm leaning iPhone. I posted on FB and got mixed results- I did hear that the Thunderbolt battery sucks and that it's difficult to listen to music on it. I do like apple products (though I am not a blind follower by any means) and most people I know who have an iphone love it. Thoughts?
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Goose

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2011, 04:31:00 PM »
I haven't heard great things about the Thunderbolt either.  If that's your only Android option, and given how you'd use it, you'd probably be perfectly happy with an iPhone.  If you had an HTC Incredible or Samsung-made Android option available, I'd be giving those a serious look.
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kristin

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2011, 09:11:31 PM »
I'm on verizon, so anything verizon is fair game. most people who aren't pro iphone are all about the thunderbolt. I guess I'll just have to go into the store and check things out.
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Aaron

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 12:54:42 AM »
My phone is a Samsung GalaxyS. And I don't have anything bad to say about it. However, I haven't use either an Iphone or that droid phone. But I love mine... So I can't really help you out at all...


My rom drive shit the bed. I haven't been able to burn cd's for awhile. Which I can't say is that big of a deal, however, not being able to rip them in a normal amount of time sucks. a lot. Right now its going at 1.6x ya. So I just bought a new one off Newegg. 24 bucks. Either way the three cd's I want to rip are gona take for ever. (Pretty much the time it takes to play them.)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 01:01:48 AM by Aaron »
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individualzero

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Re: Techies, unite yesterday! [Computer Talk & Tech Help Thread]
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 02:10:16 AM »
@K: I don't know if you need a phone as fast as the recent Droid iterations because a fair number of the newest and best (albeit high-end) ones utilize Tegra*. Maybe look into one of the less-brand spanking new Android phones?

I'd hate to say it, but the latest iPhones ARE pretty solid; they match what you want in a phone, and even I can't summon up enough hated for Apple to deny that it may be an option for you. Since you mentioned Verizon, though, I'd go for a good Android phone. I've heard so many good things that I'm dying to have one, now.

*Tegra being the latest architecture for the high-end Droid phones; if they sound up your sleeve moreso than other phones, I'd first look into reviews and see what Goose has to say first, but any of the phones that utilize Tegra will blow away most (if not all?) of the current iPhones in terms of raw speed. I don't recall if you're too into computing, but if the processor being dual core means anything to you, that is what Tegra is. Any phones that use the Tegra chipset are probably going to be the fastest thing you can get right now in terms of apps and multitasking. Since you don't seem to need that horsepower though, I think you'd be well-off with one of the newer iPhones or a Droid without Tegra since either phone type pretty much does all you're asking it to do.



@Aaron: I could have sworn even the first (as in, not S-II) Samsung GalaxyS was Android-based, or are you just using yours without a data plan / not using the market...? I'm not familiar with V-Mobile.
I survived the Rapture and all I got was this smug sense of being right.